Thursday, March 10, 2011

Friday, April 8: Gatsby, Chapter 2

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95 comments:

  1. Why was Mrytal buying a dog a part of the story? Is it some how significant because it seems so random to me.

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  2. Myrtles husband seems to be an idiot. He may have noticed that Myrtle has been acting strange, but maybe (like Daisy) he doesn't want to bring up trouble and lose the purchase of a car.

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  3. Do you think that Fitzgerald is representing himself when he was poor and had a drinking problem thorough the ignorance and lifelessness of the people that live in the valley?

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  4. Who do you think Tom and Daisy relate to in fitzgerald's life?

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  5. Molly-
    I agree it seems that the dog is really insignificant considering that everyone forgets about it after they get to the apartment. If Tom could buy Myrtal anything then why pick a dog it seems like a waste of money when they are just going to neglect it.

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  6. Nate,
    I beleive Tom and Daisy are Fitzgerald and Zelda. Fitzgerald dated another woman while Zelda was in the hospital.

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  7. I feel Daisy isnt able to leave him because of money I feel. Without that she wouldnt be where she is now and I feel she is to afraid to leave the life they have started. I also believe that she is just used to it and maybe even afraid of the change that would happen if they got a divorce.

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  8. Molly- I think Murtyl was buying a dog because she wanted someone is the house. Also to get her my off things and have other things to worry about.

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  9. Nate-
    Tom and Daisy could represent Scott and Zelda while Zelda was cheating on him.

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  10. Do you think that Daisy knows the seceret that Tom is living another life with Murtyle? Tom must enjoy the feeling of being superior.

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  11. Davis I think that Fitzgerald was representing himslef and all those around him i think that he is simply portraying the lifestyle of the 20's that he grew up around.

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  12. Do you think in the end if both women figure it out that Tom will end up with neither of then?

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  13. Maybe Daisy doesnt want to leave Tom because of the social status/lifestyle she has when she is with Tom.

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  14. molly- i think the dog is just showing that rich people do what they want when they want because like cory said after the party starts everyone forgets about the dog.

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  15. I think Myrtal is the woman that Tom is truely attracted to, but Daisy is the better housewife and mother, so Tom is trying to get the best of both worlds.

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  16. I think that George and Daisy would have to be completely oblivious to not know their spouses are having an affair. They're most likely staying with them because of their lives together; its a facade and they are in love with their lifestyles more than their spouses.

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  17. What do you think Daisy’s reaction will be when she finds out that Tom is having an affair?

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  18. Nate i think that Tom and Daisy relate to fitzgeralds life, in a way that tom represents himself and daisy represents zelda because when he went to new york, he and zelda almost didn't get married and tom's love is with daisy but something is keeping them together(like money)but they aren't really in love with each other.

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  19. CoryP and Molly,
    The dog probably represents the spur of the moment lifestyle Myrtle and Tom have. They dont think about the consequences.

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  20. I think that it is just a rumor that Gatsby is a cousin of Kiser Willelm. People who have a lifestlye like Tom and them typically start rumors like that to entertain people.

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  21. Brianna-
    I have this sneaky feeling that Daisy and Tom have a weird agreement about this whole affair. Daisy and Tom may have argued about this but it seems the morals of their relationship are pointedly ignored. people period seem to want to ignore the core values of older generations

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  22. Nate-

    I believe that Tom represents the girl that cheated on Fitzgerald and Fitzgerald is Daisy because he doesn’t want to leave her so he just goes along with what’s happening because he loves the life style of being free and drinking and being adventurous despite the circumstance of Fitzgerald’s significant other cheating on him.

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  23. Brianna- I think both those girls will find that Tom is with both of them. When they find out Tom will be left alone, with no one else to go to.

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  24. willie- i think that daisy would be mad at tom but will not divorce him because she enjoys his money

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  25. Why do you think Myrtle's sister Cathrine says she is scared of Gatsby on page 32?

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  26. Willie.
    Daisy probably already knows about the affair. She doesnt want to give up her lifestyle so she doesn't confront her husband.

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  27. Willie i think that Daisy isn't going to have a big reaction when she finds out that Tom has a an affair because she could take half his money, and i think she is also having an affair

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  28. Dan- I think that Daisy for sure knows that Tom is having an affiare becasue in chapter 1 Daisy gets very upset when Tom gets a phone call from his mistress. But I think it is the fact that Tom wants to feel superior to Daisy, but he is bored because there is no excitment between Daisy and Tom. It seems that Daisy is equally not into Tom as much as Tom is not into Daisy

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  29. I don’t think Gatsby is related to Kiser William because like what Brooke said the book is about how people go from rags to riches.

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  30. Brianna-
    I think you might be right with Tom not end up with Daisy or Murtyle. Either the girls will both hate him or he will eventually get bored with both of the women and move on to another woman.

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  31. Willie-

    I believe Daisy already knows but she has some reason not to confront the idea of it. If you remember the argument Tom and Daisy had in chapter one it seemed like she already knew.

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  32. Who is that Doctor Eckleburg, i didnt understand why he was out there in that story. He doesnt really do anything yet. What is his purpose in the story?

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  33. Do you think that the Ash represents something more?

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  34. Molly- i would have to agree with that, that daisy isn't interested in tom at all but more interested in the life style she has with him I.E. his money....

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  35. Molly-
    I think Myrtle buying the dog represents how they throw their money around like its nothing because its just one more thing to neglect. I think she stays with George because of the money and life style but the dog won't care about that; the dog will be neglected by her just as she is by her husband.

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  36. The valley of ashes’ could be used to compare the life of the people how have yet to make it big compared to those who have made it big.

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  37. No morals. Just like Fitzgeralds lifestyle.

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  38. sean: Yes i think ash could represent the poor possibly

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  39. sean- i think the ash is way of showing what real life is like outside of the eggs, away from all the money and easness of living in an egg

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  40. Emily- I believe that Catherine does not really know Gatsby and he is mysterious, so she probably is judgeing him in a negative way. We really dont know though cause he still hides in the shadows.

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  41. Carlos-
    I think that you are right. Daisy might also be having an affair too, because it seems like thats the way a lot of these rich people are.

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  42. Why was Tom so angry about Myrtal talking about Daisy?

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  43. Like what andy said in the circle, all this chapter represents is what life is like when your only goal in life is to obtain currency

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  44. I agree with Andy I think that this book shows how people will marry only for money and power.

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  45. Molly:
    Tom probably doesnt want to be reminded he has a wife and child at home while he is doing what he wants to do.

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  46. molly- i think that tom wasnt so angry as he was drunk and it was just a reaction to her being annoying

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  47. With his agression, could in the future it cause even more damage to all the relationships he has maybe ending even some of them?

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  48. DO you think Nicks drinking is the beginning of a downward spiral for him?

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  49. Carlos- I don't think daisy is having an affair, she seems like she wants a relationship with tom but just can't get it to work. She's to focused on maintaining a life style

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  50. Sean i think that the ashes represent the way Tom views that part of town. I think that the ashes make it seem worthless and dirty and that is the poorer side of town. I also think that he just kind of uses Myrtle as his mistress and sees her as a poor mans wife who will do what he wants. I think that Tom treats Myrtle as worthlessly as he views the ash covered part of town.

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  51. Molly- I think that Tom is angry with Myrtal because he feels that it's has secret that nobody but he and a selected few should know about.

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  52. Nick probably sees everyone pushing aside morals and he decides to try and fit in a bit by getting drunk and following the others lead.

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  53. I believe that through Gatsby, Fitzgerald is representing himself and his fall from riches to rags. And through Nick Fitzgerald is revealing to the audience his perspective of his rise and fall from rags to riches to rags again. That is why I predict that as the story advances, slowly but surely Nick will change his perspective to the ways of the East Egg people and gain riches as Gatsby will slowly reform to his old ways before the riches and reveal the alcoholic point of view of Fitzgerald when he went through that point of depression in his life after being left so many times.

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  54. Molly-
    It seems that Tom still cares a little about his wife, like Fitzgerald he may be with another woman but he really does love his wife. But I could be stretching that to the extreme.

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  55. Molly-
    I think Tom got so angry about Myrtle talking about Daisy because it makes it clear in Tom's mind that he is committing adultery. It point's it out however it shows no sign that he will correct his ways.

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  56. I agree with Willie and Andy, a lot of people dont marry for love but for the wealth of who ever they are getting married too and all the benefits it comes with.

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  57. I agree with what people in the inner circle are saying about how Nick's morals are starting to decintegrate.

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  58. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  59. Willie and Ibutler...I disagree with you about how people only want to obtain currency because Tom doesnt benefit from Myrtal with money. He has a secret life which is an elite thing to have. I think its about the excitment they have with one another becasue they dont need to follow rules. But Tom doesnt get money from Myrtal.

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  60. Brianna-
    Yes I do think his aggression with cause damage to his relationships. The way he is going, ending his relationships is probably going to happen.

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  61. Molly- I think that Tom was upset because he doesnt want anything to happen to her and really cares for her.

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  62. I don't think that Nick is really pushing his morals i don't think that he had that many morals in the beginning it think that he just kind of goes along with life what ever comes along, because he did say this was the second time he was drunk so i don't really think that it was that new of a thing for him.

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  63. I think if the Tom and Daisy and them went on down to the Valley of ashes they would not appreciate how much they have compared to the poorer people ,because they are rich people who only care about having fun and getting drunk.

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  64. dan- i agree, on page 38 they talk about how mrs mckee almost made the mistake of marrying a nice guy who had no money

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  65. Grace- I believe that Tom cares that much and he tries to push them to the limit. He knows that just being with two girls is risky so it doensn't matter what else he does.

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  66. do you think Myrtle or Tom feel guilty about cheating on George or Daisy? They seem very nonchalant about the whole ordeal.

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  67. I agree with Katie that Tom does what he does to show off, to make other people know who he is and he has money and power.

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  68. Willie i agree with you, they wouldn't care or appreciate what they have because it's not in their nature as rich people because they don't live that lifestyle everyday and if they where in the situation as the people in the Ashes and then worked their way back then they will appreciate what they have.

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  69. Willie-
    I think that Tom and Daisy are Old rich, so they dont really appreciate having to work for their own money, they are used to being rich their whole life.

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  70. Emily-

    It seems that since Nick is on his own for the most part that he doesn't need morals. Like he is living with his own rules and style because he's so new to the rich urban scene and has no real idea of the real life of the rich in the twenties.

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  71. I think the tone of the chapter is "fuzzy" because F. Scott Fitzgerald was drinking so much and there's the saying "write what you know" and alcoholism is what he knew.

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  72. Nate:
    Yes beginning to drink is the beginning of some hardship for Nick. I think its foreshadowing something that he will get pulled into and have a hard time getting out, if he gets out at all.

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  73. Grace, i think that they do feel guilty but they try to pretend that they don't. I think that when Tom punches Myrtle becasue he is saying Daisy's name is because he feels guilty and doesn't want to be reminded that he is cheating on his wife.

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  74. What is your final opinion of chapter 2?

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  75. do you guys think this chapter was little random or that it actually added to the story?

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  76. GraceK- I think that they secretly feel only a little bit guilty about cheating on their spouses but I dont think they will stop because they dont have the chemistry at home that they have with eachother. I think the only thing causing them to feel guilty is lying to their spouses, but not falling for another person.

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  77. I agree with Nate When people are rich and have had everything handed to them their whole life, the would expect that lifestyle to continue as they get older.

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  78. It seems like Gatsby wrote more about the rich than the poor because even though he experienced both he wanted to be rich and famous more than poor and wealthy.

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  79. lbutler- i think that this chapter is setting up many more parties that nick will go top that will get him in with gatspy.

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  80. With agree with DAN and NATE,
    the whole book and the characters carry that attidue and lifestyle with them.

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  81. Nate, i think that chapter 2 is the beginning of Nick's new life in the inner circle of the rich and even though he was taught to be civil and not have opinions based on appearances he is going to turn very slowly into what he hates.

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  82. It seems that this chapter likes to reveal a side of Fitzgerald's life when Zelda had her affair and then when Fitzgerald was in Hollywood the same thing with him. How both Zelda and Fitzgerald didn't seem to care to much about the others affair. It seems that this is just the general mind set of the Twenties.

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  83. I was confused about chapter 2, because it did not seem to relate to chapter 1 very much so i think some of these things may become important later in the book

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  84. butler-

    I believe that although this chapter seemed random, I do believe that it was widening the story to help bring all the characters into the story and help portry Fitzgerald's true self even more through Tom and Daisy.

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  85. I agree with Carlos that maybe it would have been more effective to get his point of view across about relationships if he used the main characters.

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  86. Nate- My opinion on this chapter was a little boring but I got a good grasp on some of the characters in this chapter. Also Tom and his relationships was a big part of this chapter. The ending also gives us a question of where Nick is going next.

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  87. I agree with Cory, this chapter did go back and look at Fitzgeralds life.

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  88. lbutler
    this chapter explained more about Tom's character as well as Nicks. We saw into the social pool and how immoral these people are.

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  89. Does Wilson have any suspicion that Mertle is having an affair?
    -I think that Wilson is suspicious that Myrtle is having an affair. Even though Tom believes that Wilson is out of the loop, “He thinks she goes to see her sister in New York. He’s so dumb he doesn’t know he’s alive.” (Pg. 26) But you can tell that he knows about the affair because they seem to be short with one another.

    Why does daisy and tom stay together?
    -Daisy stays with Tom because she is used to having the excess of money and the gifts that comes with being with Tom. It doesn’t seem that they married for love. They married for status and money. Also, Daisy was Catholic and it was against her religion to get a divorce. But, I think she is using that as an excuse so she seems like a better person.

    To Molly’s question,
    -I think that Myrtle bought the dog because just because she could. She probably wanted to show off her wealth. She probably wanted to show the others that she had her husband wrapped around her finger. But, I though that is was kind of sad that she forgot about the dog so soon.

    Nicks standing on Gatsby.
    -I think that Nick is more intrigued by Gatsby because he learned that he is the nephew or a cousin of Kaiser Wilhelm. He also heard from Catherine that she is sort of afraid of him. “I’m scared of him. I’d hate to have him get anything on me.” (Pg. 32)

    What does the valley of ashes represent?
    -I think that the Valley of Ashes represents the personalities of the people who live in the West Egg. They might seem fine and perfect on the surface, but I feel that they live behind a mask and are really dark people underneath.

    How is nick changing?
    -Nick is meeting more people and becoming more sociable. Her is drinking more and starting to blend into the personalities of the rich. He seems kind of lonely and wants to fit in so I think he is surrounding himself with people so he can get some attention. He seems to still be iffy about the lifestyles of the rich and seems to judge them.

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  90. Does Mr. Wilson know about his wife's affair with Tom?
    -I would be very surprised if someone was able to see that Myrtle and Tom have a relationship going on. Whenever Tom is around Myrtle treats her husband differently and treats Tom like her number one priority. "Then she wet her lips, and without turning around spoke to her husband in a soft, coarse voice: "Get some chairs, why don't you, so somebody can sit down."" (pg 26)

    Why does Daisy stay with Tom?
    -Daisy is with Tom for only one reason, without him she would not be able to live the life she does. Daisy has no money to her own name so if she were to leave Tom, she wouldn't have anything to live off of. I don't believe that Daisy is stupid enough to not realize that her husband is having an affair, but to accuse him of anything would just mean problems for her marriage. Daisy even says that it easier for a woman to be a fool and look past everything rather than stand up for yourself, "that's the best thing a girl can be in this world, a beautiful little fool." (pg 17)

    Will Tom pick Myrtle or Daisy?
    -I don't think Tom will ever be able to give him self completely to either Myrtle or Daisy because he enjoys living a double life too much. Daisy is able to give him the high social status life of East Egg while Myrtle can give him the fun loving and party filled life. He is able to get the best of both worlds by keeping both of them.

    Is Myrtle only with Tom for his money?
    -It really seems like all Myrtle wants from Tom is his money based on the fact that all they ever do when they're with each other is spend Tom's money. When they drive back to the city to spend time at their apartment Myrtle stops the car and buys a dog from a street vendor. The dog was not the only purchase of the day, the book also states something about her having to gather up the rest of her purchases.

    Was it right of Tom to hit Myrtle?
    -No it is never right of a man to hit a woman especially if his reasoning for doing it was because Myrtle kept repeating the name of his wife. It seems like Tom enjoys establishing authority over the women in his life, and that he uses his temper as an excuse for the things he does.

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  91. Nate
    I think Tom and Daisy represent himself and his wife. When she was in the hospital he was seeing another woman but would not make anything official.

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  92. lbutler
    I think that the chapter could have been left out but if it had been we would be sort of lost later in the book, I think it was needed to add to our knowledge of some characters.

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  93. Grace
    I think that Tom and Myrtle really don't see anything wrong, although we know they are cheating they may see it as just meeting other people. In Fitzgerald's life, he was seeing someone while his wife was in the hospital but he never made anything official because he was still in love with zelda.

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  94. Nate
    I think nicks drinking isn't a downward spiral but it is showing how he is getting out and meeting new people the way that the rich people do.

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  95. Dan
    I do believe that Daisy knows about the affair, but i don't think she cares enough about the marriage to bring it up. It seems like she is in love with the money, not him

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